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The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
Hi all,
An updated version of Hauptwerk (version five, or "Hauptwerk V") is about to be launched. Apart from the "usual" questions:
- will it be an improvement?
- will it be worth it? and
- is it inevitable as an update that "we all must" eventually purchase?
... I also note from the Hauptwerk website that there will be, as I understand it, a NEW way of "auto-updates" in the style of e.g. the Windows Operating System.
From a commercial perspective I can understand Milan's intent: to subscribe to the "auto-update", Milan will charge a monthly fee of $9,99. In return, the subcriber "will never pay" for an update anymore.
I'm not too keen to fall for this payment trick: I would insist on maintaining my own FULL CONTROL over whether or not I want an update, and when to purchase this. It's an option still available, but I can see that Milan could eventually move permanently and exclusively to the "auto-update for a monthly fee" option.
I sure DON'T LIKE THAT development at all. I'm not interested in lining the pockets of Milan on a monthly basis. I want to evaluate ANY update, consider its cost and price, before deciding whether to buy or not to buy.
Your thoughts - now --- and also more later if and when you've moved to install the updated Version Five?
Jack
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by jacko Nov 18, 2019 09:00 AM
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Replies (74) |
RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
jacko wrote:
Hi all,
An updated version of Hauptwerk (version five, or "Hauptwerk V") is about to be launched. Apart from the "usual" questions:
- will it be an improvement?
- will it be worth it? and
- is it inevitable as an update that "we all must" eventually purchase?
... I also note from the Hauptwerk website that there will be, as I understand it, a NEW way of "auto-updates" in the style of e.g. the Windows Operating System.
From a commercial perspective I can understand Milan's intent: to subscribe to the "auto-update", Milan will charge a monthly fee of $9,99. In return, the subcriber "will never pay" for an update anymore.
I'm not too keen to fall for this payment trick: I would insist on maintaining my own FULL CONTROL over whether or not I want an update, and when to purchase this. It's an option still available, but I can see that Milan could eventually move permanently and exclusively to the "auto-update for a monthly fee" option.
I sure DON'T LIKE THAT development at all. I'm not interested in lining the pockets of Milan on a monthly basis. I want to evaluate ANY update, consider its cost and price, before deciding whether to buy or not to buy.
Your thoughts - now --- and also more later if and when you've moved to install the updated Version Five?
Jack The Hauptwerk announcements I talk about are here:
1. On the Hauptwerk Forum (by Michelle Qualley, the Director of Marketing & Business Operations):
http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17783
and
http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17784
and
http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17785
And also, on the Hauptwerk Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/Hauptwerk
Jack
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by jacko Nov 18, 2019 04:45 PM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
I think Hauptwerk 5 is clearly only a cash machine. I don't want too that my dedicated computer stays connected. I want to decide what I want or not to be update. I don't want to play organ and being under survey. What does mean such a marketing ? Buy or suscribe ? and what if I don't want to buy or suscribe ?... and just want to use my official HW 4.2 that works perfectly ? Will I become a "social outcast" ?
The new installed management director tries to answer any questions on the forum, but I'm really not enough convinced. My opinion is that MDA feels a real resistance against his software development.
I don't say that a software update isn't a good thing, but I'm really not sure that MDA does it in the right way. I'm very curious about the number of users who don't want to upgrade.
What a wonderful (sorry, I'm not sure of the right word in english) "mess" (shambles) it will be for all, sellers, producers,..... and users ! Is HW5 a joke or a nightmare ? Wait and see. I sincerely hope to be wrong, otherwise it would be certainly death of HW.
I've the luck (very bad luck in fact !) to have two organs, two computers, to dongles dedicated to Hauptwerk. One belonged to my best friend (like my brother) who died suddendly in a car accident last year. I could decide to have one with HW 4 and the other with HW 5..... no, I don't think so.
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by DominiqueD Nov 20, 2019 04:44 PM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
I do not see any reason why upgrading to HWV should be necessary. If your organ is not connected to the internet (which is usually the best option) HW4 will continue to work as it always has.
If there is no free and usable trial version of HWV (HW4 has a very useful trial version) I certainly will not be even testing the new version, much less buying it.
By far the most beneficial improvement would be to reduce organ load times to less than 1 second.
The next most beneficial improvement would be to have a fixed console input interface, this would remove the need to go through a complicated configuration process.
Standardising the midi file stop NRPN's (like Allen do) would also be a great benefit so that midi files made on one organ would play correctly on a different organ. (This makes the files portable and removes the need to translate them.)
I will be very surprised if any of the above are achieved in the new version V.
csw900
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by csw900 Nov 21, 2019 04:11 AM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
I just received an email from Jiri Zurek of Sonus Paradisi, which relays another significant impact of the Hauptwerk IV to Hauptwerk V upgrade. Jiri made it clear that once Hauptwerk V has been launched, Sonus Paradisi sample sets that work with Hauptwerk IV will no longer be made available. In other words, anyone who owns Hauptwerk IV and wishes to purchase additional encrypted sample sets from Sonus Paradisi, WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO UPGRADE TO VERSION V. He said: "The sample sets for Hauptwerk 4 will not be available beyond November 29 most probably."
I imagine that every other sample set producer will follow suit and stop selling sets which work with Hauptwerk IV. If so, this will certainly limit the ability of Hauptwerk IV users to install additional organs. Therefore, those who do not wish to upgrade to Version V (for whatever reasons) will have to reckon with this limitation.
The email I received was certainly a mass email sent to customers of Sonus Paradisi. Others of you who received it, please chime in and correct me if I am wrong in my assessment here.
Thank you.
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by sterlingorganhouse Nov 23, 2019 12:40 PM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
vinyleater wrote:
I just received an email from Jiri Zurek of Sonus Paradisi, which relays another significant impact of the Hauptwerk IV to Hauptwerk V upgrade. Jiri made it clear that once Hauptwerk V has been launched, Sonus Paradisi sample sets that work with Hauptwerk IV will no longer be made available. In other words, anyone who owns Hauptwerk IV and wishes to purchase additional encrypted sample sets from Sonus Paradisi, WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO UPGRADE TO VERSION V. He said: "The sample sets for Hauptwerk 4 will not be available beyond November 29 most probably."
I imagine that every other sample set producer will follow suit and stop selling sets which work with Hauptwerk IV. If so, this will certainly limit the ability of Hauptwerk IV users to install additional organs. Therefore, those who do not wish to upgrade to Version V (for whatever reasons) will have to reckon with this limitation.
The email I received was certainly a mass email sent to customers of Sonus Paradisi. Others of you who received it, please chime in and correct me if I am wrong in my assessment here.
Thank you. I've recived the same message. This message is a lack of respect for HW 4 users. It just means "Pay or die" ! I'll no more buy samples from SP. HW was a great adventure.... but the research of more and more benefits is corrupting the dream of lot of users. I've certainly enough samples to be happy.
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by DominiqueD Nov 23, 2019 01:37 PM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
DominiqueD wrote:
I've recived the same message. This message is a lack of respect for HW 4 users. It just means "Pay or die" ! I'll no more buy samples from SP. HW was a great adventure.... but the research of more and more benefits is corrupting the dream of lot of users. I've certainly enough samples to be happy.
Thanks to all for your replies. It's now becoming clearer to me that Hauptwerk will, with its HW-V Update, split its users into "those who will not upgrade from HW-4" and "those who follow and will upgrade to HW-V".
I've just paid for my first sampleset at Sonus Paradisi (I own a couple of free demos), and I will buy more in the coming days - BEFORE Sonus Paradisi no longer supports its HW-4 Sample sets.
Because the samplesets are "encrypted", Hauptwerk needs to send me a "Dongle Update" for my HW-4 installation. As long as this is the case with HW-4 users, Hauptwerk will be forced to respond to purchases made to sample makers in the case of encrypted samplesets.
In can NOT see HW installations in e.g. churches being too keen to upgrade to HW-V with it's new iLock Key and its preference for organs to be connected to the internet. It represents a "new thing" for most in-church installations; church boards need to decide on this, they will take advice from their organists, but this is a "highly conservative audience", many of whom will NOT be upgrading. This will force Milan/Hauptwerk to keep catering for HW-4 users, worldwide - including the providing of Dongle updates for encrypted HW-4 samplesets.
I think Milan/Hauptwerk may have created more problems than solutions for itself with this "radical re-write" of the HW software!
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by jacko Nov 23, 2019 04:40 PM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
jacko wrote:
Thanks to all for your replies. It's now becoming clearer to me that Hauptwerk will, with its HW-V Update, split its users into "those who will not upgrade from HW-4" and "those who follow and will upgrade to HW-V".
I've just paid for my first sampleset at Sonus Paradisi (I own a couple of free demos), and I will buy more in the coming days - BEFORE Sonus Paradisi no longer supports its HW-4 Sample sets.
Because the samplesets are "encrypted", Hauptwerk needs to send me a "Dongle Update" for my HW-4 installation. As long as this is the case with HW-4 users, Hauptwerk will be forced to respond to purchases made to sample makers in the case of encrypted samplesets.
In can NOT see HW installations in e.g. churches being too keen to upgrade to HW-V with it's new iLock Key and its preference for organs to be connected to the internet. It represents a "new thing" for most in-church installations; church boards need to decide on this, they will take advice from their organists, but this is a "highly conservative audience", many of whom will NOT be upgrading. This will force Milan/Hauptwerk to keep catering for HW-4 users, worldwide - including the providing of Dongle updates for encrypted HW-4 samplesets.
I think Milan/Hauptwerk may have created more problems than solutions for itself with this "radical re-write" of the HW software! On the website of OrganArtMedia all samplesets for HW4 are offered on a discount, while most samplesets now have a HW-5 version for sale.
To me a clearer picture emerges from the Sonus Paradisi and also the OrganArtMedia.
1. Initially, Hauptwerk and some of the more renowned samplemakers collaborated in their "war agains hackers" - and the notion of "encryption" developed, where Hauptwerk updated the USB Dongle to "certify" the genuine purchase of the samplesets from various companies.
2. The more complex samplesets, especially those with "surround sound" and 4 or more recordings per pipe/key, have increasingly become "encrypted" -- and Milan/Hauptwerk also made money from this.
3. Now that Milan/Hauptwerk has adopted the iLock key, replacing the USB Dongle, it does not need to "ship" anything by post, nor does it need to manually compose files for the Hauptwerk user (the iLock key interacts with the online Milan store of permissions and updates). Nice for Milan of course, and less work for them.
If my above impression is right, it explains my impression that Milan has developed an ethically highly questionable and unsavoury haste to ABANDON support for Hauptwerk 4 and its USB Dongle.
It leaves ALL users of HW-4 in future UNABLE to purchase the most renowned samplesets that use both "surround sound" and Hauptwerk encryption. Someone needs to challenge the ethics of this BIG TIME.
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by jacko Nov 23, 2019 08:40 PM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
Certainly, many users will find themselves in my situation, with several sample sets purchased for a total of several thousand euros. Have they decided that what I spent was not enough? I'm sorry, but the "old" users should not be treated this way, I will leave hw5 and related sample sets to future generations
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by Anto800 Nov 24, 2019 04:58 AM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
I've been following closely the discussion of the impending Hauptwerk update in several forums (this one, the official Hauptwerk forum, the Dutch-language PCorgan forum). My impression is that I am watching a trainwreck in slow motion. MDA has failed to provide much in the way of input telling users what the benefits of the new version will be. They have allowed piecemeal information (and, possibly, misinformation or misunderstandings) and speculation to drift about and are doing very little to put things right in that respect. On the contrary, the appearance of Michelle Qualley as MDA's main spokesperson on the official forum to my mind has made matters worse. Her main qualification seems to be that (according to publicly available information on Facebook) she is Brett Milan's fiancée. She says herself that she cannot play the organ and it is clear from her responses that she is not up to speed regarding the technical (software- and hardware-related) aspects of Hauptwerk either.
Some ("minor"? or at least less commercially important to MDA?) sample set producers (like Piotr Grabowski, Gernot Wurst of Prospectum, Graham Goode of Melotone, Danny Koschinski of Virtual Pipes, Thomas Fürstberger of forestpipes) were not informed of the impending new version at all but learned about it from the Hauptwerk forum.
Sample set producers who were informed react differently to the new version: OAM and Sonus paradisi say they will stop selling v.4 sample sets, Pipeloops and Inspired Acoustics say they will not. That seems a bit chaotic.
The entire unfolding discussion leaves me with a clear sense that the update will benefit MDA and perhaps some sample set producers more than it will benefit users (especially because of better protection against piracy). The benefits from a user's perspective appear to be limited to compatibility with current operating systems like Catalina, and built-in reverb.
Reverb can be added under v.4 from external sources -- not as convenient, but is the inconvenience worth the price and the drawbacks of the update? As to operating systems, I'm firmly in the camp of those who intend to stick with Windows 7 as long as it and my machines allow. It is immaterial that Microsoft will not "support" Windows 7 from next year since I have never needed support (I do not update Windows, have not done so for years, and, no, no harm has occurred, thank you very much) and my Hauptwerk computer is not connected to the internet anyway.
There is no urgent necessity then to upgrade and it seems advisable to someone in my position to wait until the dust settles and to see what corrections may have to be applied to this whole, inauspiciousy started upgrade business. THEN, when possible mistakes of the software AND the way it is marketed have been corrected, perhaps I will consider an upgrade.
Meanwhile I have already ordered last week the two sample sets from Sonus paradisi that I had my eyes on, and I have also received the dongle upgrades from MDA.
My hard disk is full -- I had to deinstall several sample sets to make room for the two new ones, there were so many of them.
The sample sets I have are WONDERFUL. Hauptwerk 4 works PERFECTLY. (Okay, large sets load slowly -- but I do something else while they load...) Do I detect deficiencies in the audio quality of ANY of my sets, even my favourite older ones? No, I do not.
I had already found in the past that I have become more reluctant to invest in new sample sets in proportion as the ones I already have cover existing needs. I has also been my impression that new sample sets appear less frequently on the market than they used to, and that if they do often they seem to be fairly similar to some that exist already, without a clear sense that they are technically superior. More of the same, in other words.
Anyway, this whole version 5 business is very interesting to watch...
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by einer_von_weitem Nov 24, 2019 09:08 AM
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RE: The impending Update: Hauptwerk V
einer_von_weitem wrote:
I've been following closely the discussion of the impending Hauptwerk update in several forums (this one, the official Hauptwerk forum, the Dutch-language PCorgan forum). My impression is that I am watching a trainwreck in slow motion. MDA has failed to provide much in the way of input telling users what the benefits of the new version will be. They have allowed piecemeal information (and, possibly, misinformation or misunderstandings) and speculation to drift about and are doing very little to put things right in that respect. On the contrary, the appearance of Michelle Qualley as MDA's main spokesperson on the official forum to my mind has made matters worse. Her main qualification seems to be that (according to publicly available information on Facebook) she is Brett Milan's fiancée. She says herself that she cannot play the organ and it is clear from her responses that she is not up to speed regarding the technical (software- and hardware-related) aspects of Hauptwerk either.
Some ("minor"? or at least less commercially important to MDA?) sample set producers (like Piotr Grabowski, Gernot Wurst of Prospectum, Graham Goode of Melotone, Danny Koschinski of Virtual Pipes, Thomas Fürstberger of forestpipes) were not informed of the impending new version at all but learned about it from the Hauptwerk forum.
Sample set producers who were informed react differently to the new version: OAM and Sonus paradisi say they will stop selling v.4 sample sets, Pipeloops and Inspired Acoustics say they will not. That seems a bit chaotic.
The entire unfolding discussion leaves me with a clear sense that the update will benefit MDA and perhaps some sample set producers more than it will benefit users (especially because of better protection against piracy). The benefits from a user's perspective appear to be limited to compatibility with current operating systems like Catalina, and built-in reverb.
Reverb can be added under v.4 from external sources -- not as convenient, but is the inconvenience worth the price and the drawbacks of the update? As to operating systems, I'm firmly in the camp of those who intend to stick with Windows 7 as long as it and my machines allow. It is immaterial that Microsoft will not "support" Windows 7 from next year since I have never needed support (I do not update Windows, have not done so for years, and, no, no harm has occurred, thank you very much) and my Hauptwerk computer is not connected to the internet anyway.
There is no urgent necessity then to upgrade and it seems advisable to someone in my position to wait until the dust settles and to see what corrections may have to be applied to this whole, inauspiciousy started upgrade business. THEN, when possible mistakes of the software AND the way it is marketed have been corrected, perhaps I will consider an upgrade.
Meanwhile I have already ordered last week the two sample sets from Sonus paradisi that I had my eyes on, and I have also received the dongle upgrades from MDA.
My hard disk is full -- I had to deinstall several sample sets to make room for the two new ones, there were so many of them.
The sample sets I have are WONDERFUL. Hauptwerk 4 works PERFECTLY. (Okay, large sets load slowly -- but I do something else while they load...) Do I detect deficiencies in the audio quality of ANY of my sets, even my favourite older ones? No, I do not.
I had already found in the past that I have become more reluctant to invest in new sample sets in proportion as the ones I already have cover existing needs. I has also been my impression that new sample sets appear less frequently on the market than they used to, and that if they do often they seem to be fairly similar to some that exist already, without a clear sense that they are technically superior. More of the same, in other words.
Anyway, this whole version 5 business is very interesting to watch...
Thank you very much, einer_von_weitem, for your complete and cogent contribution to the discussion. You really have voiced ALL aspects that I've observed so far. It seems Milan has fallen for the oldest trick - support the "most expensive and so-called reputable" samplemakers who've come on board with their "encrypted" products in league with Milan, and ignore the rest of what is essentially their own clientele.
I'm buying one or two Sonus Paradisi samplesets right now, and I'm pondering what to do with some samplesets of OrganArtMedia I've wanted to buy for some time - and now I'll see what happens with the Dongle updates...
I'm tempted to send a sharply worded email to Brett Milan (I have his email) and elicit his timeline for ending their HW4 support. I already have many free and cheaper samplesets from the "less famous" samplemakers - those Milan appears to have fully ignored.
The signs of this questionable development have been there for a while - when I established the Advanced Edition in March this year, it took WEEKS AND WEEKS before Milan responded to my purchase - and I NEVER received a reply to my application for a membership of the Hauptwerk Forum. I sent an email to Milan, asking whether they work "in an abandoned office" without staff, to which Brett replied.
Let's see how this "war" ends in 6 to 12 months!!
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by jacko Nov 24, 2019 04:36 PM
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